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The REVISED "I don't wanna be a fatass" thread


theallseeingeye
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A picture, just for the sake of comparison:

changewx8.jpg

I've fluctuated a lot, but I'm far stonger in the second pic, and actually only weigh about 5 pounds less -- however I went from 22% body fat to 14%. The difference is really only over the span of 2 months or so, even though the first picture is over a year old (I got way out of shape over the holidays this year and looked about the same). I decided that I'm gonna get in to lights out shape. I'll be doing a lot of moving around this summer and such though, so it may be difficult to keep it up. Either way I'll probably have one more update before I head back home for the summer.

Oh and in case anyone is wondering I only bench around 160 right now(hit 190 or so for awhile), Haven't been paying attention to my chest for like 3 months. My other lifts aren't very impressive either(albeit not THAT bad), I've mostly been running in the last few months.

With all the shit I've had going on it'd hard to maintain a schedule, and it's especially hard to watch what I eat when I drink 2 nights a week. My point is, anyone can get into better shape -- anyone.

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  • 2 months later...
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And the weight loss continues...

mezc8.jpg

So from the picture on the left side of the comparison at the top of the page, which is about what I weighed in January, I've lost something like 30 pounds. I was about 205 in that picture, I'm about 175 now (give or take fluctuations for hydration). I figure I am around 12% body fat, and I should only have to lose something like 4 or 5 pounds of fat before I finally have my BF % low enough to have a 6 pack... yeah that's right, I'm going for the vanity approach.

After I finally get to that I'll maintain by jogging about as much as I do now (10-15 miles a week) and start lifting heavy... I'm sure I'll be gaining at least a little fat when I start lifting but I am probably not going to be going for bulk so much as strength, and there is a difference, so the weight gain shouldn't be severe.

Either way, all the people I went to high school with are just stunned... and the ladies love it too... Heh

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I've lost 53 lbs since september, only gotten serious about it in about march, 30 of those lbs were lost since then. No pictures yet because I'm not satisfied with my body to post any, but in about a month-2 months time i plan to have lost the other 20-25 i need to lose and post a pic.

increased all of my lifts drastically and lost weight, which is difficult to do.

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I've lost 53 lbs since september, only gotten serious about it in about march, 30 of those lbs were lost since then. No pictures yet because I'm not satisfied with my body to post any, but in about a month-2 months time i plan to have lost the other 20-25 i need to lose and post a pic.

increased all of my lifts drastically and lost weight, which is difficult to do.

Way to go man!

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uh i lost 5 lbs but i don't think that's good because i'm 5'9 and 136 pounds, is that too skinny?

Nah, but you might consider starting a training program... gaining 5 -10 pounds of muscle takes awhile, but when you're thin like you are you notice gains fast.

The problem is I'm a vegetarian so the food I eat doesn't really help with that. Meh, i will figure something out.

It IS possible to build muscle on a strictly vegan diet, I saw a guys website where he talks in detail about how he did it... and what's more he did all his lifts and everything at his house, didn't even go to the gym. This guy is in lights out shape, he's huge... I'll see if I can find you the link.

Thing is, you have to be very strict with your diet, and eat some crazy foods, but it is possible... I just don't know why anyone would want to do it that way haha.

Well I'm not vegan i don't think i could give up milk and cheese and eggs. but yeah see if you can find me the link.

I can't find the guys site, wish I had bookmarked it..

From what I remember he ate all sorts of different beans to get all the complete proteins he needed... he watched his diet very closely. However, if you're still open to eating eggs and maybe even some fish then you shouldn't have a problem getting the protein... between eggs, fish, and whey protein you'll be set. All you need to do is watch your nutrition and get a solid workout plan.

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You shouldn't have a problem if you allow yourself to eat eggs, milk, and cheese. If you go as far as fish you're almost as well off as anyone who eats meat (minus steak and chicken ofcourse). And since you allow yourself to drink milk you can use Whey and Casein along with Soy proteins.

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You shouldn't have a problem if you allow yourself to eat eggs, milk, and cheese. If you go as far as fish you're almost as well off as anyone who eats meat (minus steak and chicken ofcourse). And since you allow yourself to drink milk you can use Whey and Casein along with Soy proteins.

No i don't eat fish, my mom buys this vegi-food that's supposed to be packed with protein and i like it better than meat itself and it without a doubt is better for me.

I doubt it... meat, in proper portions, especially lean meats like fish and chicken, is actually a very important part of your diet. Yes, you can not eat meat and stay healthy. Yes, you can not eat meat and get into good shape. No, it's not easy. No, it's not the way your body is meant to sustain itself.

Vegetarianism for the sake of your health is stupid, because it makes proper nutrition harder, not easier. At any rate, good luck with your weight gain!

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You shouldn't have a problem if you allow yourself to eat eggs, milk, and cheese. If you go as far as fish you're almost as well off as anyone who eats meat (minus steak and chicken ofcourse). And since you allow yourself to drink milk you can use Whey and Casein along with Soy proteins.

No i don't eat fish, my mom buys this vegi-food that's supposed to be packed with protein and i like it better than meat itself and it without a doubt is better for me.

I doubt it... meat, in proper portions, especially lean meats like fish and chicken, is actually a very important part of your diet. Yes, you can not eat meat and stay healthy. Yes, you can not eat meat and get into good shape. No, it's not easy. No, it's not the way your body is meant to sustain itself.

Vegetarianism for the sake of your health is stupid, because it makes proper nutrition harder, not easier. At any rate, good luck with your weight gain!

Hm, In my opinion, and i don't want to get into any big argument here, but our teeth were shaped to chew vegetable's, unlike a dogs who's teeth are shaped to rip meat. Our stomach was also made not to Digest meat. Whether the nutrition is better I don't know if i could convince you that a Vegetarian's is better, but the pesticides that are being put into meat makes me not want to eat it anymore. Anyways not trying to be off subject, but my cousin has been a vegetarian all his life and he is far more healthy than most of his friends.

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And I'm far healthier then 99.9% of Americans... Also it is possible that all of your cousins friends are all lazy pieces of shit.

And since when do they put pesticides into meat? Pesticides are intended to kill insects...mainly on PLANTS.

Hm, maybe not pesticides? Growth hormones, they are still a type of drug and please don't say they are unharmful, they are very harmful. I wasn't saying you were unhealthy for all i know your twice as healthy as both of us. I was simply stating when we go to the restaurant and we see people gulping down a giant fat filled chicken sandwich and they keep complaining how fat they are. You got to think, hm? I AM IN NO WAY CONDEMNING MEAT IN ANYWAY. I use to eat meat, it tastes great, i know believe me. I don't eat it though because whatever your opinions are i can honestly say that when people and chomping down their chicken sandwich and im eating my salad that i am DEFINITELY eating healthier and am without a doubt healtier. I don't know if any of that makes sense because i'm EXTREMELY tired.

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And I'm far healthier then 99.9% of Americans... Also it is possible that all of your cousins friends are all lazy pieces of shit.

And since when do they put pesticides into meat? Pesticides are intended to kill insects...mainly on PLANTS.

Hm, maybe not pesticides? Growth hormones, they are still a type of drug and please don't say they are unharmful, they are very harmful. I wasn't saying you were unhealthy for all i know your twice as healthy as both of us. I was simply stating when we go to the restaurant and we see people gulping down a giant fat filled chicken sandwich and they keep complaining how fat they are. You got to think, hm? I AM IN NO WAY CONDEMNING MEAT IN ANYWAY. I use to eat meat, it tastes great, i know believe me. I don't eat it though because whatever your opinions are i can honestly say that when people and chomping down their chicken sandwich and im eating my salad that i am DEFINITELY eating healthier and am without a doubt healtier. I don't know if any of that makes sense because i'm EXTREMELY tired.

Alright man I was just going to let you go on thinking what you think, but after reading this I gotta say... you really have to take a reality check when it comes to nutrition.

First of all I'll hit on the growth hormones issue. There has been speculation since they first started using hormones in the raising of animals about their effects on people, and it's because of that speculation that there is a thriving market for free-range, hormone free meats in this country. They are slightly more expensive then your average meat, but it's always an option. However, the USDA is one of the largest arms of the civil side of the government, and they have been researching these hormones for decades... there still is no clear danger.

Second, the salad vs. whatever debate. If you make a salad and say you put all sorts of vegetables on it, and then throw even a regular serving of ranch, french, thousand island ect dressing on it it will have somewhere between 3 and 4 times the amount of fat as a chicken sandwich without mayo (I put mustard on mine, tastes amazing). Not only that, but the vast majority of the calories you'll be getting from that salad is actually in the fat, probably as much as 50% of your meal will be fat calories. Whereas with the chicken sandwich you're looking at a split between mostly carbs and protein, with the smallest portion coming from the fat on the chicken.

The point is meat is not in any way an unhealthy food group. People who can't control themselves and knock back cheeseburgers like they are popcorn are why it gets that rap, but in reality it's probably less healthy to eat no meat than it is to eat the proper portions of lean meats.

http://www.iloveindia.com/nutrition/recipe...ss-of-meat.html

http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/health-be...and-fish-ga.htm

I could link things all day long that say exactly what I am telling you now: lean meats are part of a good nutritional plan.

I promise you that being a vegetarian for the sake of your health is just silly. It is true it can be a healthy lifestyle, but it's far more work than just eating a balanced, controlled, and unrestricted diet that will leave you just as well off nutritionally.

Trust me bud, I just dropped 30 pounds in like 11 weeks... I know what I'm talking about.

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And I'm far healthier then 99.9% of Americans... Also it is possible that all of your cousins friends are all lazy pieces of shit.

And since when do they put pesticides into meat? Pesticides are intended to kill insects...mainly on PLANTS.

Hm, maybe not pesticides? Growth hormones, they are still a type of drug and please don't say they are unharmful, they are very harmful. I wasn't saying you were unhealthy for all i know your twice as healthy as both of us. I was simply stating when we go to the restaurant and we see people gulping down a giant fat filled chicken sandwich and they keep complaining how fat they are. You got to think, hm? I AM IN NO WAY CONDEMNING MEAT IN ANYWAY. I use to eat meat, it tastes great, i know believe me. I don't eat it though because whatever your opinions are i can honestly say that when people and chomping down their chicken sandwich and im eating my salad that i am DEFINITELY eating healthier and am without a doubt healtier. I don't know if any of that makes sense because i'm EXTREMELY tired.

Alright man I was just going to let you go on thinking what you think, but after reading this I gotta say... you really have to take a reality check when it comes to nutrition.

First of all I'll hit on the growth hormones issue. There has been speculation since they first started using hormones in the raising of animals about their effects on people, and it's because of that speculation that there is a thriving market for free-range, hormone free meats in this country. They are slightly more expensive then your average meat, but it's always an option. However, the USDA is one of the largest arms of the civil side of the government, and they have been researching these hormones for decades... there still is no clear danger.

Second, the salad vs. whatever debate. If you make a salad and say you put all sorts of vegetables on it, and then throw even a regular serving of ranch, french, thousand island ect dressing on it it will have somewhere between 3 and 4 times the amount of fat as a chicken sandwich without mayo (I put mustard on mine, tastes amazing). Not only that, but the vast majority of the calories you'll be getting from that salad is actually in the fat, probably as much as 50% of your meal will be fat calories. Whereas with the chicken sandwich you're looking at a split between mostly carbs and protein, with the smallest portion coming from the fat on the chicken.

The point is meat is not in any way an unhealthy food group. People who can't control themselves and knock back cheeseburgers like they are popcorn are why it gets that rap, but in reality it's probably less healthy to eat no meat than it is to eat the proper portions of lean meats.

http://www.iloveindia.com/nutrition/recipe...ss-of-meat.html

http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/health-be...and-fish-ga.htm

I could link things all day long that say exactly what I am telling you now: lean meats are part of a good nutritional plan.

I promise you that being a vegetarian for the sake of your health is just silly. It is true it can be a healthy lifestyle, but it's far more work than just eating a balanced, controlled, and unrestricted diet that will leave you just as well off nutritionally.

Trust me bud, I just dropped 30 pounds in like 11 weeks... I know what I'm talking about.

I don't think i'm getting the point i want across:(. I'm not sure where you live but in maine there is no chicken sandwich without a giant glob of mayonaise, that kind of makes the sandwich.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/snooge/412529605/

http://www.peoplespub.com/nercda/text/mayo.html

I can find links to :/. I don't know why you insist meat is better when we CLEARLY were not designed to eat it. I guarantee if you took two people with EXACTLY the same lifestyle, and they ate EXACTLY the same thing except for whenever One person ate meat for a meal the other person ate salad after 10 days i GUARANTEE the person who ate meat would not be as healthy as the person who ate salad. I realize meat is not a unhealthy food group, but i guarantee and vegetarian life style is healthier. We can argue this all day wrong but i can see the physical proof between me and my meat eating friends.

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What?!?!?! Not designed to eat meat?

Holy shit man, where are you getting this stuff from?

We are omnivores buddy, our bodies are designed to eat a diet consisting of plants and animals, or really whatever we can find... our ancestors were more scavengers than anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnivore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans#Diet

Trust me, we are DEFINITELY meant to eat meat.

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What?!?!?! Not designed to eat meat?

Holy shit man, where are you getting this stuff from?

We are omnivores buddy, our bodies are designed to eat a diet consisting of plants and animals, or really whatever we can find... our ancestors were more scavengers than anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnivore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans#Diet

Trust me, we are DEFINITELY meant to eat meat.

Allright, after you read this post you should probably delete all of our other posts because i got the help i needed and it basically turned into pointless spam. Look at a dogs teeth. They are made to rip and tear meat. Amirite? Look at our teeth THEY ARE FLAT they are made to chew not rip and tear. Anything that has to be cooked just to make it consumable probably isn't the best for you... Anyways my point is that Human's body is designed for fruits, vegetables and grains. NOT MEAT.

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Here, this will just save me from having to type it out:

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm#confusion

There are a number of popular myths about vegetarianism that have no scientific basis in fact. One of these myths is that man is naturally a vegetarian because our bodies resemble plant eaters, not carnivores. In fact we are omnivores, capable of either eating meat or plant foods. The following addresses the unscientific theory of man being only a plant eater.

That's the intro paragraph, read the rest of it.

You're wrong buddy, we are very much meant to eat meat. Our teeth are designed for both meats and plants, animals that eat exclusively plants generally have teeth like our molars, and animals that eat exclusively meat have teeth like our incisors... we have both. I don't understand how you were never taught this in school, I think this was like 3rd or 2nd grade for us. It's basic human biology.

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Here, this will just save me from having to type it out:

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm#confusion

There are a number of popular myths about vegetarianism that have no scientific basis in fact. One of these myths is that man is naturally a vegetarian because our bodies resemble plant eaters, not carnivores. In fact we are omnivores, capable of either eating meat or plant foods. The following addresses the unscientific theory of man being only a plant eater.

That's the intro paragraph, read the rest of it.

You're wrong buddy, we are very much meant to eat meat. Our teeth are designed for both meats and plants, animals that eat exclusively plants generally have teeth like our molars, and animals that eat exclusively meat have teeth like our incisors... we have both. I don't understand how you were never taught this in school, I think this was like 3rd or 2nd grade for us. It's basic human biology.

I don't know why you posted that link it had no facts and half of it didn't even relate to this. It was in school i learned of this that we were made to eat fruits and vegetables. We have four teeth that are shaped like a dogs for ripping meat. How many do we have that resemble the horses that exclusively eat grains. Your adressing like half of what im typing. Also have you ever learned of the animals that adapt? Perhaps humans have changed into eating meat for so long that our teeth have been transforming more and more to eat meat?

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Ugh monday will be my first day working out for over a month because of a rotator cuff injury. Cant wait to see how much my bench has dropped ='[

My body comp. and what not as of June 1st was:

170lbs

4.7% bodyfat

6'1"

Bench: 275lbs

Mile in 5:57

100 meter in 10.87

god im going to be out of shape...

170, you bench 275, AND run a sub 6 minute mile? Wow.

Dunno why you'd be posting here, haha.

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Ugh monday will be my first day working out for over a month because of a rotator cuff injury. Cant wait to see how much my bench has dropped ='[

My body comp. and what not as of June 1st was:

170lbs

4.7% bodyfat

6'1"

Bench: 275lbs

Mile in 5:57

100 meter in 10.87

god im going to be out of shape...

170, you bench 275, AND run a sub 6 minute mile? Wow.

Dunno why you'd be posting here, haha.

Yeah that's scary. :-P in other news my uncle just told me he can now bench 315 O_O. I couldn't even lift that much off the ground... 5:57 mile is mighty fast.

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I ran a mile in 6:04 last night. It was on a treadmill so I was actually screwed out of the 10 or so seconds it takes to turn the speed up from 1 mph to the 9.5mph I ran the first quarter mile at. Whatever though, I'll get under the 6 minute mark soon. Unfortunately not too soon though, I twisted my knee last night sitting down on the couch and it'll probably take some time before it is back to 100%. Damn it.

Also, I found the website for you RKDMAN:

http://fitness.scoobysworkshop.com/nutrition.htm

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a question about Gyms.

I have Golds Gym (Guilderland, NY) and YMCA(Guilderland, NY) both within walking distance of my apartment. Bally's (Albany, NY) is near my work and isnt that far out of the way for me.

Golds - $39.99 with no startup fee and some $9 administration fee and probably some 1 or 2 year contract crap

YMCA - $50 monthly, $100 startup fee and i dont believe thier is a contract.

Bally's - not sure yet, but pretty sure its competitive with Golds.

I will probably do the 1 week free pass thing for them, but does anyone have any opinions on any of these gyms? I hear Bally's and Golds can be pretty sneaky with thier contracts and stuff.

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getting sorta irritated, i lost another 3 pounds, i don't see how i'm losing weight, i'm working out and eating lots of protein and good food. :D Maybe i just need to lose weight before i gain weight? it's just kinda disappointing.

If you keep loosing weight, eat more. It's pretty simple.

seriously i eat a ton. :/

Who cares if you're losing weight as long as you're putting on mass overall?

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getting sorta irritated, i lost another 3 pounds, i don't see how i'm losing weight, i'm working out and eating lots of protein and good food. :D Maybe i just need to lose weight before i gain weight? it's just kinda disappointing.

If you keep loosing weight, eat more. It's pretty simple.

seriously i eat a ton. :/

Who cares if you're losing weight as long as you're putting on mass overall?

good point.

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  • 2 weeks later...
getting sorta irritated, i lost another 3 pounds, i don't see how i'm losing weight, i'm working out and eating lots of protein and good food. ^_^ Maybe i just need to lose weight before i gain weight? it's just kinda disappointing.

If you keep loosing weight, eat more. It's pretty simple.

seriously i eat a ton. :/

Who cares if you're losing weight as long as you're putting on mass overall?

good point.

Take a look at your caloric intake. Just spend a whole day eating what you normally would but write down the calories, carbs, and protein form everything and add it all up. Then eat about 500 calories, 50 grams of carbs, and 25-50 grams of protein more the next day for two weeks or so and see what happens. Results arent instant, and once you start gaining weight you need to up your diet more to compensate. If in the first two weeks you dont gain anything then add the same amount again. Im eating about 4500 calories, 420 carbs, and 400 grams of protein a day right now (all very clean) and am only putting on a pound or two a week (while maintaining less than 5% bodyfat...)

Eat ALOT, eat CLEAN, and train HARD

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getting sorta irritated, i lost another 3 pounds, i don't see how i'm losing weight, i'm working out and eating lots of protein and good food. ^_^ Maybe i just need to lose weight before i gain weight? it's just kinda disappointing.

If you keep loosing weight, eat more. It's pretty simple.

seriously i eat a ton. :/

Who cares if you're losing weight as long as you're putting on mass overall?

good point.

Take a look at your caloric intake. Just spend a whole day eating what you normally would but write down the calories, carbs, and protein form everything and add it all up. Then eat about 500 calories, 50 grams of carbs, and 25-50 grams of protein more the next day for two weeks or so and see what happens. Results arent instant, and once you start gaining weight you need to up your diet more to compensate. If in the first two weeks you dont gain anything then add the same amount again. Im eating about 4500 calories, 420 carbs, and 400 grams of protein a day right now (all very clean) and am only putting on a pound or two a week (while maintaining less than 5% bodyfat...)

Eat ALOT, eat CLEAN, and train HARD

i weigh 136.5 now, woot woot.

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getting sorta irritated, i lost another 3 pounds, i don't see how i'm losing weight, i'm working out and eating lots of protein and good food. ^_^ Maybe i just need to lose weight before i gain weight? it's just kinda disappointing.

If you keep loosing weight, eat more. It's pretty simple.

seriously i eat a ton. :/

Who cares if you're losing weight as long as you're putting on mass overall?

good point.

Take a look at your caloric intake. Just spend a whole day eating what you normally would but write down the calories, carbs, and protein form everything and add it all up. Then eat about 500 calories, 50 grams of carbs, and 25-50 grams of protein more the next day for two weeks or so and see what happens. Results arent instant, and once you start gaining weight you need to up your diet more to compensate. If in the first two weeks you dont gain anything then add the same amount again. Im eating about 4500 calories, 420 carbs, and 400 grams of protein a day right now (all very clean) and am only putting on a pound or two a week (while maintaining less than 5% bodyfat...)

Eat ALOT, eat CLEAN, and train HARD

where the fuck do you get 400 g of protein a day?

im going back to college and iso protein sources. (i know beans chicken etc, but my school is retarded and i have to eat it deep fried, or not at all...)

can obv buy groceries but again its hard because no place to cook it. and i dont really want to eat cans of tuna.

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There are a lot of things out there you don't need to cook, just keep cold:

Turkey (Pre-cooked)

Ham (Pre-cooked)

Chicken (Pre-cooked)

Canned Options:

Tuna

Chicken

Other:

Shakes

Meal Replacements

I personally consume ~120g of protein in just shakes every day. Add in 5-7 meals and it's not hard to make it to 400.

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There are a lot of things out there you don't need to cook, just keep cold:

Turkey (Pre-cooked)

Ham (Pre-cooked)

Chicken (Pre-cooked)

Canned Options:

Tuna

Chicken

Other:

Shakes

Meal Replacements

I personally consume ~120g of protein in just shakes every day. Add in 5-7 meals and it's not hard to make it to 400.

in all honestly though, there isint that much at school. our "grocery store" on campus is fairly shitty; and i dont have access to a store like price chopper on a daily basis. So i dont think i can even get like pre cooked things besides cold cuts. But even then they arent good for you and have so many preservatives or just taste disgusting. I am a fairly picky eater, and obviously wouldnt be able to keep up a routine of eating that much protein if i disliked the food. I might be able to get away with a grilled chicken breast a few days a week or so, but besides that everything is deep fried as far as meats are concerned- or on pizza or a sub or something.

What is the protein shake that you take? I was planning on ordering a shake mix, and just trying to eat as much protein as i can during the day in meals (usually 2 meals..^_^) and just drink milk and munch on something during the day, but if i can find a good shake i might just take that as well.

Im looking at the Shaklee protein atm (know someone who distributes-can get super cheap), do you think thats a good buy? http://www.shaklee.com/20665.html

I was reading and that glycemic chemical or hormone is really bad for you......so i dont want a supplement that is high in it -.-

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That doesn't even tell you what's really in it...

You want something like this I assume - http://www.prosource.net/lean-body-chocolate/6458-1/188/ They're not the best meal replacements around but they're good for you and don't taste all that bad.

And eating two meals a day is probably the worst thing you can do. Even if you make meals out of just protein shakes it's better then not eating at all.

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I get about 200 grams of protein a day from shakes. Always get whey protein. Go to www.gnc.com and look into Optimum Nutrition brand or GNC brand protein powders, they are both made with very high quality ingredients and what not, and the flavors are never too bad. 100% Whey protein is usually the best. I use GNC brand 100% Whey and i mix in Glutamine powder (its an amino acid that aids in muscle recovery). Chocolate flavor is usually the best flavor to go with. Do not consume more than 50 grams in an hour, your body cant process this much and its hard on your liver and kidneys. I get 40 grams before and after EVERY workout.

Protein, carbs, calories, and hard training are the most important parts of gaining muscle. Also get as much sleep each night as possible. Shoot for at least 8 hours, muscle repairs and grows when you sleep, not in the gym.

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GNC...right. I'm going to have to pass on that one. I'm a big fan of Nitro Tech (MuscleTech), excellent protein. Optimum Nutrition also makes fairly good proteins at a pretty good price if you don't want to fork over the doe for MuscleTech or higher priced products. I've used MANY different proteins in my day; all of them will get the job done. Some just better then others...

Also, "always go whey" is a bad attitude. Is whey better then nothing? Yes - but, there are definitely better options depending on what time of the day it is. If you can't use the better options (see below) go with Whey.

If you're really trying to gain mass and can't figure out when you need your proteins I'll help you out -

Right when you wake up:

25-40 Grams hydrolysized whey with water - You need to get something in your system as fast as possible to help repair any muscle breakdown that may have taken place over night. Make sure to eat a good meal 30-60 min later.

Pre-lift (At least a half hour before, try for an hour):

20-25 Grams Whey + 20-25 Soy or 20-25 Grams Whey + 20-25 Grams Casein these can be mixed with whatever liquid you want (Gatorade, Water, Milk - whatever you prefer) - Will get protein into your muscles mid-lift which will aid in recovery and growth later.

Post-lift:

40-50 Grams Whey or 20-25 Grams Whey + 20-25 Grams Casein or 20-25 Grams Why + 20-25 Grams Soy - Maybe the most important shake you drink all day, your body NEED a good high dose of protein after you lift... I'm sure you can figure out why. 30-60 min later make sure to eat a mean full of good carbs and some more protein.

Right before bed:

20-40 Grams Casein - Casein is the slowest digesting protein and will stay in your system throughout most of the night. Thus, preventing catabolism from destroying your muscles.

As Muggs said Glutamine is an important part of any lifters supplements. Try to consume at least 10 grams per day and up to 25 grams per day (5 grams per dose). You can mix this with any/all of the above shakes.

If anyone wants to know anything else feel free to ask.

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Im not a big fan of muscletech, i like 100% whey complexes and i get all of my other supplements from other sources. this probably costs more and is more trouble, but in my experience it has been much more effective. A normal training day for me would look like this:

Wake up about (6:00): GNC MASS XXX weight gainer shake. about 1000 calories, 150 carbs, and 75 grams of protein. I also eat a large bowl of oatmeal and drink ALOT of water. WATER CONSUMPTION IS IMPORTANT!

Around 10:00 i drink 40 grams of whey protein and stuff myself with about 8 slices of bread.

11:30: i drink my pre workout supplements. For those of you concerned in Nitric Oxide and or Creatine look into VPX NO-Shotgun http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?produ...hotgun&sr=1

Go to bodybuilding.com if you would order it, its alot cheaper there.

I swear by this stuff. It is by far the most effective pre workout supplement i have ever used, and ive tried pretty much everything at GNC.

I also take a small Beta-Alanine supplement. This buffers the pH levels in your blood drastically reducing the effects of lactic acid on muscle tissue during exercise. Basically that means that the "burn" you feel is much much less intense, and it increases explosive muscle strength ALOT. I also take 5000mcg of Vitamin B-12, i love these for energy.

12:00 Workout for 2 hours (about one hour into my workout i take 40 grams of whey protein)

2:00 finish working out and take another 50 grams of whey and as many carbs as i can get (i shoot for about 100). These carbs push all the protein into your muscles quickly and incease glycogen stores.

4:00 same as 2:00

6:00 Diner. Eat clean!

10:00 same a breakfast, then bed.

ive been changing it up a little bit lately but thats what i do on average.

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You have any problems keeping the fat off with your 10:00 meal being so carby? Late night carbs have always been my anti-christ...

If you want to buy supps online use www.prosource.net, prices are cheaper then BB.com (for the most part) and I've always had excellent service there. I've 'blown' many thousands of dollars there.

As for a pre-workout sups I've always had good results with Fusion Force by BioQuest. My buddies prefer to go with NanoVapor, personally I've never tried it.

I've always wanted to give NO-Shotgun a try. Never heard anything bad about it, but I hate mixing in new supps for stuff I know that works... Would do it in my next mass gaining month, but when I'm putting $500+ into supps for a month I would hate to have a product that I don't like.

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I dont just because i do very hard abs every day and at age 17 i have a hell of a fast metabolism.

Ive tried nano vapor before... hated it. It worked AMAZINGLY the first day then after that it was crap.

I love NO-Shotgun, i really wont train without it anymore. The energy and strength boost is insane and the effects never weaken. When i used to use no-xplode by the end of one tub i was using like 4-5 scoops to get the same effect as 2 because i built up a tolerence to it so fast. I have used shotgun every day for about 8 months, and only missed about 5 days (not in a row) and one scoop feels as great as it did my first day with it.

Last week i drank a whole redline energy drink (same company as shotgun) and took my normal preworkout crap and since july 21st my max bench has jumped from 275 to 305...

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I dont just because i do very hard abs every day and at age 17 i have a hell of a fast metabolism.

Ive tried nano vapor before... hated it. It worked AMAZINGLY the first day then after that it was crap.

I love NO-Shotgun, i really wont train without it anymore. The energy and strength boost is insane and the effects never weaken. When i used to use no-xplode by the end of one tub i was using like 4-5 scoops to get the same effect as 2 because i built up a tolerence to it so fast. I have used shotgun every day for about 8 months, and only missed about 5 days (not in a row) and one scoop feels as great as it did my first day with it.

Last week i drank a whole redline energy drink (same company as shotgun) and took my normal preworkout crap and since july 21st my max bench has jumped from 275 to 305...

I find that the effects of things always weaken for me. Fusion Force has seemed to work the best so far though in terms of duration.

I did the BSN Stack (Cellmass, Nitrix, No-Xplode) a few years back and I can definately agree that the No-Xplode didn't hold up very well. That and it's god damn expensive.

I'm almost entirely clean of all supps now, so hopefully when I go on my next supp spree I will feel some nice effects for the first few weeks...

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Try adding some Beta-Alanine to your stash. You can buy it bulk really cheap and it works AMAZINGLY.

Plus it makes your whole body tingle :)

I'll have to look into that...

What do you usually do for abs? I've been doing abs 5 days a week for awhile now, looking for some new stuff to mix it up...

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Yea and try doing situps and alternating which side you go to. (put your hands behind your head and elbows out in front and go up and touch your right elbow to your left knee and left elbow to your right knee). I do these as fast as a can for 50 reps to each side, 100 total, usually 4-5 times throughout my ab workout.

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